What are your H/D squicks?

[lomonaaeren]

I'm talking about squicks specific to Harry/Draco fic here (like a certain type of characterization), rather than to squicks that could apply across the board (like bad grammar or spelling).



1) Reading a fic in which the author portrays "bottom" as meaning "weak." Just ugh. So the minute Harry and Draco get into bed, even if the one bottoming has been strong, argumentative, complex, and equal to the other up until that point, now he must start crying and being scared of penetration and doing whatever the one topping tells him to do even if he's uncomfortable with it? I know there's a power dynamics to sexual relationships, but stripping it down to power and only power bores and disgustes me. In extreme cases where the one on the bottom is also very feminized, I think there's more than a hint of misogyny. Women can never be powerful unless they're the ones penetrating men? The penis is almighty? Please.

I don't mind stories where, say, Draco finds more pleasure in bottoming, or where Harry or Draco has a psychological quirk that inclines them to one or the other. Even there, though, I want it to fit in with previously established characterization. If Harry and Draco are perfect equals out of the bedroom and then suddenly have a D/s relationship inside it with no prior hint of that, simply because the author assumes the bottom is less powerful and under the control of the top, I'm clicking the back button.

2) This one is more nebulous. I can't really call it "one flawed character, one perfect character" because I've seen stories where both Harry and Draco were flawed that still hit this squick for me. Maybe I'll call it "one character hopelessly mistaken, the other always right." In any case, what happens is that the author sets one character on a pedestal and makes the other one into a hopeless mess as he chases the idolized one, dragging him relentlessly through past mistakes, making him apologize for the most minor things, cursing him with awkwardness at tasks he can do perfectly well, and treating mistakes as deadly and unforgivable until he's groveled and pleaded. It seems to happen more often that Draco is the perfect one, and Harry is the one who has to do something to "deserve" him, but I suspect that's not true and it's simply that I've run into more stories that do it; I've seen it the other way around, too, and it squicks me just as hard. Now, in canon they've both made mistakes, but saying that Harry must apologize and grovel and never be good enough for the author's perfect, beautiful, snarky, witty Draco because he used Sectumsempra on him, while it's just fine that Draco almost killed Harry's best friend (if you want to limit it to events in the same book), strikes me as deeply silly. The excuse I've seen offered is "Well, Draco didn't mean to kill Ron, he was trying to kill Dumbledore!" And Harry didn't know what that spell did; it's not like he lingered down the corridor rubbing his hands together, cackling gleefully, and imagining Draco all over blood. If you're going to focus heavily on the canon mistakes that will keep Harry and Draco from an easy relationship with each other, why in the world is it limited to one side?

I suspect that, in the end, this squick is largely the same as the other for me: I want to see Harry and Draco have an equal relationship, and the author weakening one or idolizing one prevents that from happening.



What are your H/D squicks?

Comments

[serena423.livejournal.com]

Ooh, good question! I think mine is where there's absolutely no lead up to the relationship. In canon, they loathed each other (at least until the Manor scene in DH). In so many fics, they force the point of mutual hatred at every turn, then have D & H kissing and frotting without any natural progression. Not that angry!sex turns me off, but that it just "pops up" without anything to support such a plot turn.

Guess that's why I like your fics so much-- the evolution of their relationship makes sense!!!

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

Though it's not a definite squick for me, I don't really like that either. I think the problem is that the length of the story ends up mattering more than the relationship, so it rushes into sex immediately. Although, even then, the author could start out with a bit of backstory to explain how they became friendlier if the length will be a problem.

And thank you!

[love-stoned0-0.livejournal.com]

I agree with you, I just don't feel it's angry sex. If I hate and loath someone I'm not going to suddenly kiss them and start frotting (thought I can't really do that anyways). I guess that turns into a personal thing at that point because I won't do it so I feel that they shouldn't do it.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

1) OOC behavior is subjective enough that, as you've said, I've read fics where I would call Draco and Harry OOC which still worked. (I've read other fics which people thought were canonical that didn't work for me). But if it becomes inconsistent within the story itself and no reason is given, that destroys the fic's universe, never mind congruence with the canon.

3) Yeah, especially with new powers. If the character really can transform into his Animagus form to escape a prison cell, why didn't he do it earlier when someone else was holding him captive?

[alexis-sd.livejournal.com]

Well, you touched on one of my major squicks.

1) Inconsistency you mention it in regard to sexual congress, but I find it unappealing in all cases. I hate it if for some reason one character starts to act of character (for the fic - I've read, if rarely, good OOC portrayals of Harry or Draco). Just today I happened upon a fic that started great and then out of nowhere Draco's behaviour just went all over the place. No consistency with his previous mind and actions whatsoever. I finished the fic, but it was ruined for me and I didn't comment, for I'd have had to be honest and state my displeasure.

2) Pet names I hate it when Harry and Draco (and any other characters, especially Snape) start to call each other funny names. It forces me out of my skin. Can you really imagine Draco and his uptight pureblood honour and all that shit upbringing and him calling Harry 'love', 'dearie' and other stuff like that. Or him replying to Dray, Draky and any such BS. Not in my book.

3) Deus ex machina be it as ending or every time the author hits a dead end. another sure way to make me drop a story. I just can't stand it.

4) The author's opinion forced on the reader. There are those fics where it is obvious the author favours one of the characters and that leads to two possible things - either this character is always the one to suffer beyond all reason and sense or he is treated as the wronged when the other should suffer to make up for his mistakes.

As you see, most of those are general and not H/D exclusive, they apply to any fic in general.

[envious-ema.livejournal.com]

pet names: i am so undecided on pet names! you see some of the pet names i've read are cringeworthy!! and esp. if they do it in public!!
but i dont really mind it if they call each other love or baby in private! because its private, if you are in love with you could call them love etc in private right!! i'm just so undecided on that one!!
and this might be a really stupid Q, but whats Deus ex machina?! i'm still new to the lingo! :D
p.s. sorry to just barge in!! hope u dont mind! :P

[envious-ema.livejournal.com]

i agree with you there, i can see where your coming from, sometimes the author let their imagination take over! i have read fics where the author makes harry or draco a lord (3 or even more times over) and the other character is in awe of the other!! i dont mind if they are both a lord 3 times over!! lol! like you i love to see them in equal loving relationship, the love is very imp. to me.
1. i have a big problem with harry and draco being unfaithful to each other or raping each other! thats a big no no for me! i dont mind when they are role playing, or PWP but just when they are taking revenge on each other etc!! i just find it soo distasteful!!
2.character death, i dont mind if its REALLY necessary but if it could be avoided its better, i hate it when authors have really good stories and then kill Harry or draco off at the last chapter for no reason what so ever without any warning!! i actually read couple of fics like this!! its just WTF!!
i actually have no other big squicks, i'm just a not big fan of angst, and all this things above leads to a whole lot of angst, or result in they ending up with someone else!! its just arghh!!
but angst for the reason of plot is def. good, but they have to end up together and be happy by the end of the fic. :D

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

1) Infidelity I don't mind so much in certain fics; epilogue-compliant ones sometimes need it. But rape I simply can't stand. It's not the rape itself so much as the fact that a lot of authors have rape leading to true love or simply forgiven right away.

2) As you said, sometimes the character death is simply milked for angst and despair, and doesn't fit in with the story. I don't really get why authors would choose to end the fics that way.

[sorringmay.livejournal.com]

Oh I have to agree with you on both points you made.

1)"Bottom" for me does not mean weak. I find it interesting that most stories (not all though) where Harry bottoms, he is made out so weak and feminine, but I have seen Draco there too and I don't like it my self. Draco is snarky, Harry is headstrong and I like them that way thank you.

I have no issues with one of them suddenly realizing the other loves them or the depth of the relationship and showing that emotion in bed. This to me isn't about power.

2) I could not agree more on your assessment of "the pedestal and the beggar." As you stated they both screwed up...you have to face both or ignore both; it's not one or the other for me.

3) The making the boys into feminine things (all the time) drives me batty. Draco should be some what of a snarky, sneering ares. Harry should be kind of headstrong, bold and brave; neither should crying, sniffing PMSing little...I wont boy in my story thanks, otherwise I'll read a het fic.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

3) Feminization is also subjective for me, but I have a test; if I can change "he" to "she" for one character and there's absolutely no difference, especially when it comes to things like crying or "spreading one's legs" or being called sexist insults like "whore" and "slut," then that's way too far.

[melonbutterfly.livejournal.com]

1) EXACTLY. I couldn't have put it better. It's shallow, stupid and boring. Yeah, everyone has a different taste, but I don't think it's "taste" when Draco suddenly goes all whiny and weak, needing Harry to protect him from everyone and everything. That's tasteless, I think.
I can't stand one-sidedness. Where one is the stronger/more intelligent/better looking/whatever one, while the other needs the one to change him before they get into a relationship. Which leads me to makeovers. I've read countless of stories where Harry suddenly "goes cool", having some revelation that wearing Dudley's old clothes isn't too fashionable, and changes his whole wardrobe into black/generally dark colours and leather, more often than not also getting a tattoo/piercing and growing his hair simply because the author thinks that's sexy.
What? The canon Harry wasn't good enough? Authors are almighty and might shape the characters until they are perfect? I don't like Harry's paranoia concering Snape. I don't like Draco being a coward. But that's how they are. People aren't supposed to be perfect.
Or the same but in a different setting: Draco and Harry get together, and the very first thing Draco does is take Harry shopping. What, Harry was good enough to start a relationship with, but now that it's established, he needs to be enhanced? Please.
Sure, Harry's clothing is horrible. Nobody would like it (well, those of the HipHop fraction). But the concept of Harry having to be dragged off by a bunch of Slytherins who buy him a whole new wardrobe of designer clothes before he "can be seen with a Malfoy"... I don't want to read that. I want to read something where Draco likes Harry the way he is. He can dislike his clothing, alright. But it's still Harry's own decision what he wears. I dislike the whole concept of starting a relationship with someone under the condition that that someone needs to be improved. That's not what real love should be about.
I don't want to read about perfect people. I want to read about a perfect relationship, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to fight. Fighting is necessary. A "perfect" relationship isn't a flawless one, I think. It's when they can fight and rage and hate each other, when they can dislike certain aspects of each other, but still stay together, because they love each other. (Now it's official! I'm a sap.)

I ranted a bit, sorry!
Now I try to be short and to the point: I dislike "I love him since the day we first met but he'll never love me back - oh he does love me too! Yay!", "'Why do you hate me so much Draco?!' - 'Oh that's because of the day on the train in first year. You didn't want to be my friend.' - 'I'm so sorry. I changed my mind. Let's have a meaningful relationship.' - 'Ok.'", and I can't stand the Dursleys suddenly going evil. Even if Vernon suddenly went berserk and started to hit Harry, Harry wouldn't just let it happen, thinking "They'll take my wand if I do anything". He'd go "Fuck you!" and hex him, if only with a Petrificus Totalus, get his things and get out of there. Or worse; Vernon rapes Harry. Big no-go for me.
Those aren't things that make me turn away from a story (to be honest, barely anything does if it's not too out of character and illogical/badly written), but if it isn't written extraordinary well, so at least everything afterwards makes sense, I'll most likely stop sometime, because I'm just not into it.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

One of the bad aspects of HP fandom is that it's a very incestuous (in the "everybody influences everybody" way) community, so a lot of people do seem to write whiny bottom Draco not necessarily because they think it's a good idea, but because everyone else is doing it, and that's what gets read.

The makeover stories do puzzle me, especially the ones where Harry changes his name and the color of his hair and eyes permanently (and especially when the author starts referring to him by the new name. Alex and Salazar seem to be popular choices). If authors were attracted to the original Harry/Draco pairing, why alter Harry that much? Personality quirks are much more a matter of taste, and I can see why, for example, an author might want to explore Harry changing mightily as a result of PTSD, or Draco ten years after Hogwarts, when he's managed to redeem himself in his own mind and established a bunch of new connections with people who don't care about what he did during the war. But when the most basic things about the characters change, those things that are usually the same from story to story and are one of the basic signs that you're reading HP fanfiction, I can't really divine the author's purpose and thus can't connect to the story.

I really don't think Harry and Draco could have a calm relationship. They don't have to be fighting at every second, but it would still be volatile.

[grey-hunter.livejournal.com]

Yes to the two you mentioned.

I probably have lots of things that turn me off a story, but the most recent which I just managed to formulate to myself. I happened upon it several times and didn't know why the story bored me to death when I can see tons of squealing comments of how brilliant and erotic it was:

Some "serious" kink written as fluff - or worse, as an instruction manual. For me, the attraction of a kink is that it is kinky. And I don't care how detailed it is described if it fails to do the most basic thing for me: (no, not that, although that is of course there, too) make me think about it, try to imagine how it could be and why it would attract people with certain tastes or needs, even if it is normally not my cup of tea.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

For me, the attraction of a kink is that it is kinky.

I like the way you put that. I don't read as many PWPs or kinky stories as I used to, but when I did, there were times I was completely baffled or put off by something that I thought would be exciting. Rape as fluff is the most obvious example and is the main reason I tend to avoid non-con stories, but with things like BDSM, breathplay, bestiality, and so on, if there's really no tinge of the "certain tastes and needs" you mentioned and it's treated as completely common and- forgive the usage of the word- normal, how is writing it different from writing vanilla sex?

[lunasky3.livejournal.com]

ooo I was just thinking about this today :D

Let's see, the two you mentioned, non-con with anyone, makeover stories...

I also really don't like the ones where Harry somehow has to take care of Draco somehow and being the bigger person about it. I mean, give me a break. If there's no Harry Caplock Temper Tantrum, it's not the real Harry. Another thing is a bad first kiss. The "One of them snaps and pushes the other against the wall and oh look their both really turned on by this" only works in the proper context.

Another irk is waaaaay too much fluff. Even if it's a one-shot, there really needs to be some conflict. No conflict, no sexual tension to base a relationship on. And like you said, they really can't have a calm relationship.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

I don't mind if Harry takes care of Draco (hell, if I did, I think I wouldn't have written several of my stories),but it depends on his motivation. As you mentioned, his being perfectly calm and happy about it is debatable. So is the idea that he would reach out to Draco without resenting it, or just because he was attracted to him.

I tend to like fluff stories better when they're very short. Of course, I also don't read very many.

[(Anonymous)]

There's not much that completely turns me off, but one that I see quite often is this- Harry and Draco get together somehow, and suddenly everyone and their mother turn against them. Ron turns into a homophobic jerk (with the rest of the Wesleys and Hermoine following his example), Draco is disowned by his parents, Harry is shunned by society, etc etc, all for the sake of having the story be primarily Harry/Draco. Notice, I don't have a particular problem with one or several of these happening, if it makes sense within the context of the story (though I can't imagine the entire Wesley troupe shunning Harry if the author wants to keep even remotely canon). It's when it happens so that the author doesn't have to include the other characters that it drives me nuts. You can easily isolate the characters, or concentrate solely on their relationship, without committing mass character assassination on everyone else.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

My feelings on this are complex. I can see the tendency to deal with conflict (and there would be a lot of conflict in Harry dating someone who has prejudices against the Weasleys and Hermione). I would rather see those dealt with than for the author to say that no one reacted negatively to Draco at all. But as you say, it can go wrong so easily. And it's very easy to go for the OOC melodramatic behavior of shouting and hexing rather than silent treatment, tearful arguments, or rifts that get repaired, which we actually see happening in canon.

[raphsody606.livejournal.com]

Good God this has gotten a lot of responses. One of my squicks (besides what you mentioned before) is a irritatingly non-irritating Draco. He is an annoying character. That's just the way he is and there are a great many that try to write that out of him.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

There some to be some things a lot of people are tired of saying.

And yes, I dislike that. A lot of the "idealized Draco" fics I've read smooth all the annoyingness out so that he charms even Hermione. No.

[kissmemalfoy.livejournal.com]

I think I agree with both of your squicks. With the first one about bottoming, In my opinion, it's most convincing when both characters are strong no matter who is the bottom. Because, obviously, it's not just going to be the weak character who is the bottom - and with these two, neither is really weak. I prefer fics where the person who is the bottom is more 'I want you to fuck me' than all submissive and girly. It just seems a lot more realistic that both of them would be more open in directing their pleasure, particularly if it wasn't the first time they were with each other or with anyone at all.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

I'm continually puzzled by the way "I want you to fuck me" (good phrasing!) or the equivalent is absent from so many stories. The bottom often doesn't demand what he likes, even when he's a "bossy bottom." Instead, the top directs everything, and the character on the bottom is supposedly only there because the other forced him to be or because "he needs to be controlled." Enjoyment needs to be part of more sex stories, along with humor and playfulness.

[kissmemalfoy.livejournal.com]

P.S. sorry, this has got me thinking
I also dislike fics where Hermione and Ron are really in the background. In the books they are so important to Harry and it really irks me when they are pushed out of the way to make room for Draco in Harry's life. I don't believe he would ever just drop Ron and Hermione because they were a couple and he was the third wheel (or anything like that). They are really close throughout the books and while I can appreciate that they might grow apart, it annoys me when they're hardly mentioned.
I'm not one for that 'Golden Trio' malarky but I prefer it when they're true at least partly to canon in their relationship with Harry.
/end rant.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

I don't mind that so much if it was explained how and why they grew apart- but then, I've written stories where I chose that tactic because I'm not very good at Hermione's or Ron's POV.

[kestrelsparhawk.livejournal.com]

Top/bottom roles may not be a squick for me, but they annoy me enough I might stop reading. I'm with thinking that people who take on permanent roles are KINKY. And if it's a kink, it's worth acknowledging that not everyone -- or even most people -- do it that way, and it needs some defending in the community. Because one thing I know about the glbtqueer community, if anyone knows what you do, it's subject to commentary.


I was just re-reading Beren's Corruption series the other day,where at the end Draco says he'll tell Harry a certain secret "about the time you let me top." Now THAT'S a reasonable use of personal roles -- Harry's ended up with dark critters inside him helping run his life, and Draco's acknowledging that it's going to be that way and he'll just have to live with it.

My biggest squick is the writer referring to them as "the blonde," or worse, "the Blonde Slytherin" and so forth. It's seldom a relevant aspect of their character; and post Hogwarts, I think the Slytherin stuff would be equivalent to "old school tie" but not a definition of one permanently.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I tend not to mind the permanent roles in the context of a BDSM fic...but there's a reason I don't tend to read a lot of BDSM fics. Flexible roles make more sense to me because people do change. And even in a BDSM relationship, I think, what they decided on when they began the relationship is not necessarily what they would want five years later. Ironically, the only time I've seen that issue addressed is when the bottom is reassuring the top, "No, I want you to absolute control over me! I need it!"

I can't read fics that use that trope. Categorizing someone's behavior as Slytherin is one thing, because the wizarding world does seem to be very behind the "your House defines you" mentality; saying "The Slytherin stood up and walked behind Harry, and the Gryffindor found himself surprised at the blond's behavior" is silly.

[cupboardwitch.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have a real squick that applies only to Harry and Draco; the things I can't read in them, I can't read in other characters either.

Although I dislike OOC behavior, there are so few authors who really portray them how I see them canonically, that I've come to be able to put up with more than I used to. Primarily this applies to Harry because we know so much more about him. With Draco, there is a great deal of room to develop his character and add eccentricities or habits that explain his canon behavior.

Above all, the one sure-fire way of getting me to drop a fic is making one of them into a caracature. It seems that so often, one or the other or even both of the boys are written one-dimensionally, almost as if the author didn't read the books at all and doesn't really care about the characters.

This is particularly true with the emotional moments; Harry is perpetually stuck wrecking Dumbledore's office or Draco is still crying in front of that cracked mirror. Both of the boys had incredible pressures placed upon them, but those were single moments out of more than a million words of story.

On the other hand, those moments cannot be ignored. Harry does have a fairly violent temper and Draco is a coward when it comes to physical confrontation.

Does that mean that Harry will always punch (or hex) anyone at the drop of a hat? No. Does that mean Draco will roll over or go down without a fight? No. It's the subtleties that matter; all of them.

All of this factors in (for me) when I think of their bedroom roles. Harry is a doer; he jumps right in and he's off. He's privately insecure, but it doesn't stop him doing in anything else and I can't see that it would stop him in sex either. Draco is sneaky and underhanded and that fits the stereotypical role of a bossy bottom; I can see him drawing Harry in and then telling him what to do.

But again, subtleties matter and this isn't ONLY who the boys are. It's like in all other parts of their character; there are times when they both will have a need to take care of things and a need to be taken care of; there will be times when one is passive and the other agressive but not always the same one and not always in the same way. One or the other can top from the bottom or bottom from the top both physically and emotionally.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

I agree about the wide definition of what's OOC and what's not. From my perspective, the best thing I can do is simply to avoid the genres of fic in which I think the most OOC behavior comes out, which for me is mpreg, noncon, most darkfics, and most wedding fics.

My main objection to top and bottom roles is that they tend, as you put it, to ignore the subtleties. It's not that I really object to Draco bottoming, because I've read and enjoyed a lot of stories where he does. I just don't want to get the impression that the writer thinks the stereotypical behavior of a bottom defines Draco and all that he is.

[jinxgirl71.livejournal.com]

When Harry and Draco are SO OOC that I can't seem get into their characters.
And I agree on the rape. I don't think rape is sexy or romantic.
Where Draco is tortured and humilated by Harry or visa versa.
When I get all into it and I'm thrown a curve ball of self-mutilation and then one/both get turned on by it.
Or when everyone in the fic is gay. It's just not realistic. Unless it's crack.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't like the "everyone's gay" fic either. Especially because Ron and Hermione are either the token het couple, or in gay relationships that feel very forced.

[neji-chan.livejournal.com]

It’s interesting that the Top Ten Most Common Squicks is the same in every fandom, and yet there are so many fics containing them.

There are a lot of things I don’t like and would never read, mainly mpreg (for so many reasons), rape or prostitute fics. I tend not to give those things a chance, even if they’re highly recommended. Characterization is a tricky thing, because everyone has their own view of the characters and I know that. I stop reading fics with characterizations I find off unless it’s explained the reason for the characters acting that way.

Even with warnings there is no escaping certain things: the ‘surprise’ squicks. Everything was going great (good plot, solid characterization, etc) until one of them appeared:

1) Bottom = weak. I don’t know what’s worse: that after sex whoever was bottom suddenly can’t fight off a fly and cries for nothing; or that the author has already decided who was going to bottom, therefore writes him like that even before the sex scene. In my case, I find it way hotter when the bottom is a ‘stong’ character (because it means that if he’s being fucked, is because he’s letting his partner fuck him). It also bothers me when the author tries to do a D/s sex scene but it’s not well written, as if they didn’t know what it implies.

2) (This competes with 1) When the authors write themselves as the characters.. Either they are writing the characters with their personalities, or with the personalities they would have liked the characters to have. Mary Sues are bad enough, and worst when it’s obvious Harry/Draco/Whoever aren’t like that, have never been like that and would never be like that

3) Harry: *gasp* OMG I <3 you!!
Draco: OMG I <3 you too! *THE END*
Why suddenly ruin a good developing relationship? They hated each other, learning how they got together is one of the most interesting (and challenging) things about them.

4) When the importance of the people Harry loves is underplayed (especially of Ron and Hermione) as well as Harry’s past. Yes, he is pretty well adjusted for someone with that childhood, but early childhood experiences are very important and there has to be some mark.

I’m sure I have other squicks (that applied to all my fandoms), but those are the ones I could think of now (I’m too sleepy -.-). This was a good post, very interesting :)

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

I'll read widely-recced fics (except mpreg and fics I know are rape rather than sex-play or dub-con) sometimes just to give them a chance, but I often find them disappointing. After all, one reason people rec fics is that they hit personal kinks, and so it doesn't really matter if the fics have a lot in common with the others that preceded them.

1) I like the idea of someone who's powerful enjoying a position that's widely conceived as less powerful (which is why I often like stories where Harry is magically powerful and yet bottoms). But it's so rarely done well. Instead, as you said, the bottom ends up unable to fight off any of his own enemies, even when the author bestows superpowers on him.

2) I've run into some widely-praised fics where the authors are obviously talking through Draco. No, thank you.

4) I wish I knew of more fics that dealt with the emotional scars of Harry's childhood, rather than resorting to physical or sexual abuse. Now you know why I am so addicted to psychological fics!

And thank you.

[beatnikspinster.livejournal.com]

1) And how! Few things frustrate me as much as the simple equations:
bottom = passive = weak = feminine = female stand-in = empty vessel
top = active = strong = masculine = male actualized = almighty penis

I wonder when preferred sexual positions morphed through kink into identity. Does "generally preferring X" require an intractable identity? Theoretically speaking, if I strongly preferred doggie style for several years, then switched to reverse cowgirl, does that make me an Ex-Doggie or a lirgwoC? Is wearing a strap-on crossing the identity barrier? Would that make me a lirgwoC-Ex-Doggie-Packin'? Should I get license plates? Notify my therapist?

Mostly, I think people are people. We all wake up, brush our teeth (hopefully), and engage in economic productivity (or not). For a sexual role to overwhelm people-ness, shouldn't it be the focus of a magnificent, blinding obsession? Wouldn't that push H/D into OOC territory? Pushing "he is a top/bottom", rather than "he generally tops or bottoms", feels like a characterization shortcut. Or a phase people pass through exploring sexuality, identity, and/or writing.

My 2) The 90s Disney Villain Solution. 90s Disney onesheets for animated features inevitably contained this phrase describing the villain: "...he/she is actually just misunderstood...". Really?! In terms of H/D, it's when everyone is suddenly and illogically good, except for Voldemort and one character classified as dispensable, usually Lucius. I'm not saying Slytherins or certain characters should always be over-the-top villains. Neither works for me. I prefer EWE and Epilogue-compliant where good and evil is more likely to fit in an adult context.

3) Rape as romance is a big squick for me. Can't go there.

[lomonaaeren.livejournal.com]

1) Hee! I giggled at the way you described it.

Unfortunately, I think fandom trends are partially to blame for the way people often treat roles. Someone realizes that bottom!Draco is more common, or reads someone else saying, "Harry is a natural top," and immediately decides that it must be written that way.

2) I can buy the idea of Draco as misled or misguided. Misunderstood? Not so much. I don't see what was hard to understand about his insulting Hermione or joining Umbridge's Inquisitorial Squad.

[bobpotter.livejournal.com]

As a gay guy I can say with experience that being a bottom is one of the greatest joys there is to our sex and it feels fantastic. It is not uncommon for the bottom to have an orgasm while being taken. It feels that good! As to power matters of who is top or bottom, in reality for gays it does not go that way. Power has nothing to do with it. For lovers near the same age usually we take turns (often fighting to be bottom!). It is not uncommon with generational lovers, the younger 'boy' is usually a bottom as it fits with the daddy complex the relationship is based on. I've known femme tops and butch body builders who love to only be on bottom. You really can't tell looking at someone what is their preference. Another important dynamic is the people involved and the endowment. Usually the male with the bigger tool tops as it provides the greatest enjoyment for his lover. A smaller penis is actually more painful than someone hung after you get adjusted to the size.

As to character's weaknesses, it is expected. That is character development and a very important part of a story. I also find my favorite stories have a main character who I quickly care for and have sympathy for. Two lovers can both be strong and mentally stable and it will be a good story and true to the real world as well as opposites in love.

[kestrelsparhawk.livejournal.com]

Thanks for commenting! I'd been trying to think of a way to explain that "top" and "bottom" may mean something about power to many people, but their basic function is to describe what someone likes/wants to/generally does in bed. It doesn't seem that hard a concept to think about -- any more than "I like my nipples played with." "Really? Mine just aren't very sensitive." would be a way to identify butch and femme for women... unless the participants WANTED it to mean butch/femme, but that's a different rant.

I actually dropped in just to ask a question -- you said a smaller penis is actually more painful? Why? That does go against what I would assume.

[nimue-8.livejournal.com]

Interesting!
I agree with you, but I have other squicks as well.

1. I don't enjoy mpreg. Even if it's a good writer (and I must say I read a good one, I get the feeling they wanted a girl. It borders on Mary Sue. For me, it 's just another way of over-feminizing Harry or Draco. But, that's in no way a judgement on the author's talent. Just not my kind of scenario.

2. What is not my cup of tea as weel are long sessions of torture, dehumanization, humiliation. Major Squick.
Now, I understand that in the context of a war or aftermath of war, dangerous and ugly things can happen. I enjoy hurt and comfort, I want the heroes to face adversity. Torture and horror happen in canon, too.
It's just that in some stories, some writers seem to revel in awful details for the sake of shock value, or even worse, kink value.
Sorry, Abu Graib as entertainment doesn't work for me. There is this good story that has some nasty flash backs; I just have to skip them.

As a corollary, I'm not strong on one of the protagonists tortures and humiliates the other as a part of their relationship. Not cool.
Yes, the Harry/Draco dynamcis are based on a power struggle and it's fascinating, but I don't beleive in one chracter or the other accepting to be treated this way. I get even more uncomfortable when the author seems to find it cool and sexy.
Mind you, I will accept a bit of S/M in slash-fic if it's mild and chracter-driven, not when it comes out of the blue.

3. The total demonization of the Weasley clan. It starts from the pertinent observation according to which, there is bad blood between the Malfoys and the Weasleys and that Harry being in love with Draco might prove awkward to say the least.
That's true!
But then, some writers who idealize Draco will decide that anybody who dislikes Draco is wrong and evil. Next thing we know, Draco was right that fateful day on the train when he said that some wizard family are better than others. Harry was wrong : the Weasleys are all demented bastards, which explains why they are wary of Draco. It's not because he and his father have been obnoxious in the past tried to killed different members of the family and so on.
I must say, I enjoy the angsty and uncomfortable situation that Harry's love for Draco creates with his surrogate family. But let's remain a bit in-character here.

4. Finally, since the Potter series are recent in the literary landscape and was first aimed at kids, we sometimes get teenage stuff I don't enjoy, but that's just me. I certainly don't want to smack of ageisme here. A lot teenagers are talented writers. I just tend to click on the return button, when Harry and Draco are transformed in - like OMG - caricatural teenage girls.

[nightlo.livejournal.com]

For Mine..

1) The author takes tortures, rape and other related dark issues lightly...for example, it is easy to 'cure' rape by just having a 'perfect' one time sex, or by treating the victim like glassy objects...those stories always seem naive to me, I will just totally ignore them...BTW, if the stories contain too many dark issues, but just wanting to write or include dark issues with no major plotting...again, the story is really unrealistic and I will drop it immediately!

2) Too OOC characters, esp. feminine Draco and Harry, or too devil Dumbledore and Hermione...tough I have definite preference for a top!Draco and bottom!Harry (just cannot explain, maybe I love Harry too much to want to cuddle and spoil him...)...however, they are guys, it is never easy to admit one sexuality (it takes time...) If suddenly they can admit they are gay and become very fussy, I will stop reading immediately! BTW, fussy, bossy and irate women are not popular either, then why would a fussy, bossy, irate feminie Draco or Harry would be popular?

3) Super powerful Harry - hey! Be rational, even superman has weakness, even saints can make mistakes (or you can say...merline)... then why would a TEENAGE 17 Harry suddenly inherite some hidden bloodlines, enable him to become a perfect super powerful always-know-it-all wizard? Even magic has its limit, it would be boring if everything can be solved by it...

4) Lastly, too many OCs or marysues...as this is not original fiction but fan fiction...

5) Just simply, bottom!Draco fic, as my cup of tea is bottom!Harry or at least equal relationship - no flame please, just my personal choice!

[saylee.livejournal.com]

I got here following a trail of links from somewhere. I hope you don't mind if I jump in with my two cents.

I can't stand fics where Draco suddenly has nothing to do with his old friends, or where all the other Slytherins are completely evil and threatening his life. On a related note, I don't understand why people feel the need to make Draco all chummy with Blaise, and ignore the existence of Crabbe and Goyle (well, the former existence of Crabbe). I realise Crabbe and Goyle aren't particularly smart, or perhaps more importantly in the eyes of certain authors, pretty, but all indications from canon point to them being more important to Draco than Blaise. Obviously, what happened in DH changes things, but there are plenty of ways to play it, while remaining true to the fact that the relationship existed and mattered before.

Another one is post-DH fics in which Lucius is still being written as powerful, abusive, Dark-Lord's-Right-Hand-Man, etc. I don't doubt he's still a bastard, or that he was probably a shitty father, whether he loves his son or not, but it is clear that he loves his son, that he wasn't particularly important to the Dark Lord (what with being in disgrace and all), and that he can be pretty pathetic. If he's going to be the villain of a story, more needs to be done to establish why.

I will never understand mpreg, and I hate feminized Harry (and also feminized Draco, though I have a little more tolerance for him), wedding fics, and eloquent Harry. Pet names often bother me, unless they are appropriate, and in character. I like pet names used the way they are in the webcomic Friendly Hostility, where Fox calls Collin "baby" (complete with a leer) and Collin calls Fox "fucktard".

One last one that bugs me is cool, calm, confidant, suave Draco. He may be putting forward that front, but to me it's ridiculously out of character, particularly when he's also the dangerous powerful top. I like to see Draco with some vulnerability. Not victim!Draco, but more prickly and defensive, to the point of being downright vicious depending on the circumstances. I'm sure that someone else considers that wildly ooc.

[vwalk.livejournal.com]

I've enjoyed the responses to this question and agree with some... not so bothered by others. But one thing that I really can't abide is "you raped me but now I love you" or "I love you so much I have to rape you." I was the victim of a sexual assault and can't imagine ever having 'love' type feelings for the man who assaulted me. (I tend to avoid any type of rape/ non-con anyway.) That whole "I was tortured and gang raped yesterday and today I need to have sex with you so I can feel clean" - I can't possibly take stories like this or the characters in them seriously.

I recently read a fic that I thought dealt somewhat 'realistically' with the issue of rape. Its a great fic called "Saving Draco Malfoy" by Dayspring. What was so creative and realistic about it to me was that the victim wasn't actually the one who was raped and yet the one who WAS raped had serious repercussions that he had to deal with. (So as to not spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it, I won't say any more. But I HIGHLY recommend it - if you don't mind mpreg.)

I also don't like the super feminized or overly macho Harry or Draco. And when either character is too far from canon it turns me off. I've read fics where it felt like all the author did was take an original fic and change the main characters names to Harry and Draco, because they're nothing like the Harry and Draco that we've come to know through canon. Some departures from canon are okay - but not total personality makeovers.

The other thing that really irritates me is the supreme, all-knowing, never-wrong Hermione. I realize that she's very intelligent and cares a great deal about Harry and likes to know what's going on with him. However when she (at 13, 14, 15, 16 years old, after a couple of trips to the library) comes up with solutions that no one else in the history of the wizarding world has ever achieved, or can look at Harry and instantly 'know' everything that he has done or thought about doing, I am definitely turned off. I mean if she's so so smart, why is she still in school?

Also, I know that best friends sometimes tell each other everything, but we know that Harry tends to hold things inside, especially after fifth year and I can't reconcile that Harry with the "I can pry out all your secrets whether you want to tell me or not"/Mother!Hermione.

[asdjhk.livejournal.com]

This is such a late reply but I just had to say that I completely agree with you on the bottom/top sexual roles in the relationship. I have a very strong preference towards bottom!draco but I want him to be a male not a girl with a dick. That just defeats the purpose of 'slash' fiction.

There are so many other things that not really squick me but bother me quite a bit. I wont mention all of them else this comment would become a novel.

This was a good question to ask your flist. I enjoyed reading the replies, interesting to see that many are squicked by the same things.