lomonaaeren | What are your H/D squicks?

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What are your H/D squicks?

I'm talking about squicks specific to Harry/Draco fic here (like a certain type of characterization), rather than to squicks that could apply across the board (like bad grammar or spelling).

1) Reading a fic in which the author portrays "bottom" as meaning "weak." Just ugh. So the minute Harry and Draco get into bed, even if the one bottoming has been strong, argumentative, complex, and equal to the other up until that point, now he must start crying and being scared of penetration and doing whatever the one topping tells him to do even if he's uncomfortable with it? I know there's a power dynamics to sexual relationships, but stripping it down to power and only power bores and disgustes me. In extreme cases where the one on the bottom is also very feminized, I think there's more than a hint of misogyny. Women can never be powerful unless they're the ones penetrating men? The penis is almighty? Please.

I don't mind stories where, say, Draco finds more pleasure in bottoming, or where Harry or Draco has a psychological quirk that inclines them to one or the other. Even there, though, I want it to fit in with previously established characterization. If Harry and Draco are perfect equals out of the bedroom and then suddenly have a D/s relationship inside it with no prior hint of that, simply because the author assumes the bottom is less powerful and under the control of the top, I'm clicking the back button.

2) This one is more nebulous. I can't really call it "one flawed character, one perfect character" because I've seen stories where both Harry and Draco were flawed that still hit this squick for me. Maybe I'll call it "one character hopelessly mistaken, the other always right." In any case, what happens is that the author sets one character on a pedestal and makes the other one into a hopeless mess as he chases the idolized one, dragging him relentlessly through past mistakes, making him apologize for the most minor things, cursing him with awkwardness at tasks he can do perfectly well, and treating mistakes as deadly and unforgivable until he's groveled and pleaded. It seems to happen more often that Draco is the perfect one, and Harry is the one who has to do something to "deserve" him, but I suspect that's not true and it's simply that I've run into more stories that do it; I've seen it the other way around, too, and it squicks me just as hard. Now, in canon they've both made mistakes, but saying that Harry must apologize and grovel and never be good enough for the author's perfect, beautiful, snarky, witty Draco because he used Sectumsempra on him, while it's just fine that Draco almost killed Harry's best friend (if you want to limit it to events in the same book), strikes me as deeply silly. The excuse I've seen offered is "Well, Draco didn't mean to kill Ron, he was trying to kill Dumbledore!" And Harry didn't know what that spell did; it's not like he lingered down the corridor rubbing his hands together, cackling gleefully, and imagining Draco all over blood. If you're going to focus heavily on the canon mistakes that will keep Harry and Draco from an easy relationship with each other, why in the world is it limited to one side?

I suspect that, in the end, this squick is largely the same as the other for me: I want to see Harry and Draco have an equal relationship, and the author weakening one or idolizing one prevents that from happening.

What are your H/D squicks?

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Ooh, good question! I think mine is where there's absolutely no lead up to the relationship. In canon, they loathed each other (at least until the Manor scene in DH). In so many fics, they force the point of mutual hatred at every turn, then have D & H kissing and frotting without any natural progression. Not that angry!sex turns me off, but that it just "pops up" without anything to support such a plot turn.

Guess that's why I like your fics so much-- the evolution of their relationship makes sense!!!

Though it's not a definite squick for me, I don't really like that either. I think the problem is that the length of the story ends up mattering more than the relationship, so it rushes into sex immediately. Although, even then, the author could start out with a bit of backstory to explain how they became friendlier if the length will be a problem.

And thank you!

I agree with you, I just don't feel it's angry sex. If I hate and loath someone I'm not going to suddenly kiss them and start frotting (thought I can't really do that anyways). I guess that turns into a personal thing at that point because I won't do it so I feel that they shouldn't do it.

Well, you touched on one of my major squicks.

1) Inconsistency you mention it in regard to sexual congress, but I find it unappealing in all cases. I hate it if for some reason one character starts to act of character (for the fic - I've read, if rarely, good OOC portrayals of Harry or Draco). Just today I happened upon a fic that started great and then out of nowhere Draco's behaviour just went all over the place. No consistency with his previous mind and actions whatsoever. I finished the fic, but it was ruined for me and I didn't comment, for I'd have had to be honest and state my displeasure.

2) Pet names I hate it when Harry and Draco (and any other characters, especially Snape) start to call each other funny names. It forces me out of my skin. Can you really imagine Draco and his uptight pureblood honour and all that shit upbringing and him calling Harry 'love', 'dearie' and other stuff like that. Or him replying to Dray, Draky and any such BS. Not in my book.

3) Deus ex machina be it as ending or every time the author hits a dead end. another sure way to make me drop a story. I just can't stand it.

4) The author's opinion forced on the reader. There are those fics where it is obvious the author favours one of the characters and that leads to two possible things - either this character is always the one to suffer beyond all reason and sense or he is treated as the wronged when the other should suffer to make up for his mistakes.

As you see, most of those are general and not H/D exclusive, they apply to any fic in general.

1) OOC behavior is subjective enough that, as you've said, I've read fics where I would call Draco and Harry OOC which still worked. (I've read other fics which people thought were canonical that didn't work for me). But if it becomes inconsistent within the story itself and no reason is given, that destroys the fic's universe, never mind congruence with the canon.

3) Yeah, especially with new powers. If the character really can transform into his Animagus form to escape a prison cell, why didn't he do it earlier when someone else was holding him captive?

i agree with you there, i can see where your coming from, sometimes the author let their imagination take over! i have read fics where the author makes harry or draco a lord (3 or even more times over) and the other character is in awe of the other!! i dont mind if they are both a lord 3 times over!! lol! like you i love to see them in equal loving relationship, the love is very imp. to me.
1. i have a big problem with harry and draco being unfaithful to each other or raping each other! thats a big no no for me! i dont mind when they are role playing, or PWP but just when they are taking revenge on each other etc!! i just find it soo distasteful!!
2.character death, i dont mind if its REALLY necessary but if it could be avoided its better, i hate it when authors have really good stories and then kill Harry or draco off at the last chapter for no reason what so ever without any warning!! i actually read couple of fics like this!! its just WTF!!
i actually have no other big squicks, i'm just a not big fan of angst, and all this things above leads to a whole lot of angst, or result in they ending up with someone else!! its just arghh!!
but angst for the reason of plot is def. good, but they have to end up together and be happy by the end of the fic. :D

Oh I have to agree with you on both points you made.

1)"Bottom" for me does not mean weak. I find it interesting that most stories (not all though) where Harry bottoms, he is made out so weak and feminine, but I have seen Draco there too and I don't like it my self. Draco is snarky, Harry is headstrong and I like them that way thank you.

I have no issues with one of them suddenly realizing the other loves them or the depth of the relationship and showing that emotion in bed. This to me isn't about power.

2) I could not agree more on your assessment of "the pedestal and the beggar." As you stated they both screwed up...you have to face both or ignore both; it's not one or the other for me.

3) The making the boys into feminine things (all the time) drives me batty. Draco should be some what of a snarky, sneering ares. Harry should be kind of headstrong, bold and brave; neither should crying, sniffing PMSing little...I wont boy in my story thanks, otherwise I'll read a het fic.

1) Infidelity I don't mind so much in certain fics; epilogue-compliant ones sometimes need it. But rape I simply can't stand. It's not the rape itself so much as the fact that a lot of authors have rape leading to true love or simply forgiven right away.

2) As you said, sometimes the character death is simply milked for angst and despair, and doesn't fit in with the story. I don't really get why authors would choose to end the fics that way.

3) Feminization is also subjective for me, but I have a test; if I can change "he" to "she" for one character and there's absolutely no difference, especially when it comes to things like crying or "spreading one's legs" or being called sexist insults like "whore" and "slut," then that's way too far.

I much prefer there be a lead-up to such things but I have found a few where it works, but the author usually explains things after the fact.

pet names: i am so undecided on pet names! you see some of the pet names i've read are cringeworthy!! and esp. if they do it in public!!
but i dont really mind it if they call each other love or baby in private! because its private, if you are in love with you could call them love etc in private right!! i'm just so undecided on that one!!
and this might be a really stupid Q, but whats Deus ex machina?! i'm still new to the lingo! :D
p.s. sorry to just barge in!! hope u dont mind! :P

In fiction writing, the phrase has been extended to refer a sudden and unexpected resolution to a seemingly intractable problem in a plotline.[2] A deus ex machina is generally undesirable in writing because it does not pay due regard to the story's internal logic and is often so unlikely that it challenges suspension of disbelief, allowing the author to conclude the story with an unlikely, though more palatable, ending.

Quoted from Wikipedia on Deus ex Machina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_ex_machina)

And don't worry, it's no trouble that you 'barged in'. :)

I am not into pet names in RL too. I call people by their whole names I don't usually even shorten them. And it has no relation to my love for them.

ooooh!! thank you, i learnt a new phrase today! :D
i think pet names is a thing of personal preference, i just hate it when they start calling each other ridiculous ones like coochie poochie or something!!! there's just no need for that! lol! :D
thanks again :)

Sorry for deleting my post. I just wanted to correct some mistakes, the post is right under this one.

I understand you on point 1) that's why I said it. The IC is something everyone feels for themselves, but throughout a story a character can change only if the story puts him through an obstacle or something of for some other good reason, not for the sake of it.

3) Yes, new powers that spring out of nowhere in some point and then the reader scratches their head thinking 'Why now? He could've done it tow chapters ago...' Or when e smart character suddenly loses 30 points from his IQ or the opposite a stupid one start to act as if he is a genius.

1) EXACTLY. I couldn't have put it better. It's shallow, stupid and boring. Yeah, everyone has a different taste, but I don't think it's "taste" when Draco suddenly goes all whiny and weak, needing Harry to protect him from everyone and everything. That's tasteless, I think.
I can't stand one-sidedness. Where one is the stronger/more intelligent/better looking/whatever one, while the other needs the one to change him before they get into a relationship. Which leads me to makeovers. I've read countless of stories where Harry suddenly "goes cool", having some revelation that wearing Dudley's old clothes isn't too fashionable, and changes his whole wardrobe into black/generally dark colours and leather, more often than not also getting a tattoo/piercing and growing his hair simply because the author thinks that's sexy.
What? The canon Harry wasn't good enough? Authors are almighty and might shape the characters until they are perfect? I don't like Harry's paranoia concering Snape. I don't like Draco being a coward. But that's how they are. People aren't supposed to be perfect.
Or the same but in a different setting: Draco and Harry get together, and the very first thing Draco does is take Harry shopping. What, Harry was good enough to start a relationship with, but now that it's established, he needs to be enhanced? Please.
Sure, Harry's clothing is horrible. Nobody would like it (well, those of the HipHop fraction). But the concept of Harry having to be dragged off by a bunch of Slytherins who buy him a whole new wardrobe of designer clothes before he "can be seen with a Malfoy"... I don't want to read that. I want to read something where Draco likes Harry the way he is. He can dislike his clothing, alright. But it's still Harry's own decision what he wears. I dislike the whole concept of starting a relationship with someone under the condition that that someone needs to be improved. That's not what real love should be about.
I don't want to read about perfect people. I want to read about a perfect relationship, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to fight. Fighting is necessary. A "perfect" relationship isn't a flawless one, I think. It's when they can fight and rage and hate each other, when they can dislike certain aspects of each other, but still stay together, because they love each other. (Now it's official! I'm a sap.)

I ranted a bit, sorry!
Now I try to be short and to the point: I dislike "I love him since the day we first met but he'll never love me back - oh he does love me too! Yay!", "'Why do you hate me so much Draco?!' - 'Oh that's because of the day on the train in first year. You didn't want to be my friend.' - 'I'm so sorry. I changed my mind. Let's have a meaningful relationship.' - 'Ok.'", and I can't stand the Dursleys suddenly going evil. Even if Vernon suddenly went berserk and started to hit Harry, Harry wouldn't just let it happen, thinking "They'll take my wand if I do anything". He'd go "Fuck you!" and hex him, if only with a Petrificus Totalus, get his things and get out of there. Or worse; Vernon rapes Harry. Big no-go for me.
Those aren't things that make me turn away from a story (to be honest, barely anything does if it's not too out of character and illogical/badly written), but if it isn't written extraordinary well, so at least everything afterwards makes sense, I'll most likely stop sometime, because I'm just not into it.

One of the bad aspects of HP fandom is that it's a very incestuous (in the "everybody influences everybody" way) community, so a lot of people do seem to write whiny bottom Draco not necessarily because they think it's a good idea, but because everyone else is doing it, and that's what gets read.

The makeover stories do puzzle me, especially the ones where Harry changes his name and the color of his hair and eyes permanently (and especially when the author starts referring to him by the new name. Alex and Salazar seem to be popular choices). If authors were attracted to the original Harry/Draco pairing, why alter Harry that much? Personality quirks are much more a matter of taste, and I can see why, for example, an author might want to explore Harry changing mightily as a result of PTSD, or Draco ten years after Hogwarts, when he's managed to redeem himself in his own mind and established a bunch of new connections with people who don't care about what he did during the war. But when the most basic things about the characters change, those things that are usually the same from story to story and are one of the basic signs that you're reading HP fanfiction, I can't really divine the author's purpose and thus can't connect to the story.

I really don't think Harry and Draco could have a calm relationship. They don't have to be fighting at every second, but it would still be volatile.

Yes to the two you mentioned.

I probably have lots of things that turn me off a story, but the most recent which I just managed to formulate to myself. I happened upon it several times and didn't know why the story bored me to death when I can see tons of squealing comments of how brilliant and erotic it was:

Some "serious" kink written as fluff - or worse, as an instruction manual. For me, the attraction of a kink is that it is kinky. And I don't care how detailed it is described if it fails to do the most basic thing for me: (no, not that, although that is of course there, too) make me think about it, try to imagine how it could be and why it would attract people with certain tastes or needs, even if it is normally not my cup of tea.

For me, the attraction of a kink is that it is kinky.

I like the way you put that. I don't read as many PWPs or kinky stories as I used to, but when I did, there were times I was completely baffled or put off by something that I thought would be exciting. Rape as fluff is the most obvious example and is the main reason I tend to avoid non-con stories, but with things like BDSM, breathplay, bestiality, and so on, if there's really no tinge of the "certain tastes and needs" you mentioned and it's treated as completely common and- forgive the usage of the word- normal, how is writing it different from writing vanilla sex?

ooo I was just thinking about this today :D

Let's see, the two you mentioned, non-con with anyone, makeover stories...

I also really don't like the ones where Harry somehow has to take care of Draco somehow and being the bigger person about it. I mean, give me a break. If there's no Harry Caplock Temper Tantrum, it's not the real Harry. Another thing is a bad first kiss. The "One of them snaps and pushes the other against the wall and oh look their both really turned on by this" only works in the proper context.

Another irk is waaaaay too much fluff. Even if it's a one-shot, there really needs to be some conflict. No conflict, no sexual tension to base a relationship on. And like you said, they really can't have a calm relationship.

I hate pet names too! I don't mind, in some situations, the use of 'love' or 'dear', but that's where it stops. No matter how serious a fic, a "Dray" (or worse, "Dragon"!) is like a bucketful of cold water to the head. Goodbye to the suspension of my disbelief (and gag reflex)! And I agree with you about Snape - even a kid Draco calling him "Sev" is a bit baffling to me.

But it's not so bad, luckily. I used to read Sirius/Remus, and in that fandom pet names were running wild. "Siri" and "Rem" everywhere, ugh. ;) On the top of all, the existence of "Moonie" and "Paddy" makes it a double petnameburger. Not my cup of tea.

> One other annoyance is useless character-bashing. Usually Ginny in this fandom, but it's done to Ron and Hermione and about just anyone. Sometimes it's understandable for a character to turn out cold, annoying or otherwise unlikeable - it might be a reasonable consequence from other events ot crucial to the plot in a realistic way. However, if Ginny or someone just turns out to be a "horrible bitch" with no depth whatsoever, I just can't keep reading.

(Oops, I think I barged in too. :)

I don't mind if Harry takes care of Draco (hell, if I did, I think I wouldn't have written several of my stories),but it depends on his motivation. As you mentioned, his being perfectly calm and happy about it is debatable. So is the idea that he would reach out to Draco without resenting it, or just because he was attracted to him.

I tend to like fluff stories better when they're very short. Of course, I also don't read very many.

There's not much that completely turns me off, but one that I see quite often is this- Harry and Draco get together somehow, and suddenly everyone and their mother turn against them. Ron turns into a homophobic jerk (with the rest of the Wesleys and Hermoine following his example), Draco is disowned by his parents, Harry is shunned by society, etc etc, all for the sake of having the story be primarily Harry/Draco. Notice, I don't have a particular problem with one or several of these happening, if it makes sense within the context of the story (though I can't imagine the entire Wesley troupe shunning Harry if the author wants to keep even remotely canon). It's when it happens so that the author doesn't have to include the other characters that it drives me nuts. You can easily isolate the characters, or concentrate solely on their relationship, without committing mass character assassination on everyone else.

I hate pet names. *cringes* But word on the others, too.

It's not PWPs I'm talking about. An author who writes a PWP usually does it because the topic excites her/him, and you can feel the OMGhotness in every word - or, in the case of a not-as-well written PWP, you at least get a general idea, because it is personal to the author, and he/she can convey that personal experience through his/her writing.

To be specific, it is all these fest fics. People request kinks like BDSM or bloodplay or feathers, to mention some of the ones that don't have a connotation of forbiddenness, and the author who might find the topic mildly fascinating but really has no idea about it, goes into a lengthy research. She/he gets all the technicalities right, and is even able to portray it as a kink and not an everyday (sexual) practice your neighbours do in their back garden. But the fic is lacking that certain feeling that would glue me in front of the monitor, because even if the author likes playing with that particular kink in his/her head, it's not something that excites him/her and that can be felt throughout the fic. Even worse is when it completely ruins a plot that would otherwise be full of possibilities because the author concentrates on giving his/her giftee their desired kink.

And I've also seen this in non-fest fics, probably because people get the idea that their fics would be read by more people if they included some BDSM aspect? I don't know. I'm not saying it's not fine to experiment with one's writing, not at all. I just happen to value a good plot more than the sex (except when it's a PWP).

Oh shoot! This sounded a complete rant! :P

Btw, I've never seen rape done as fluff but I've seen vanilla sex written so hot that it got a semi-permanent place in the back of my mind for a while. *cough*

My feelings on this are complex. I can see the tendency to deal with conflict (and there would be a lot of conflict in Harry dating someone who has prejudices against the Weasleys and Hermione). I would rather see those dealt with than for the author to say that no one reacted negatively to Draco at all. But as you say, it can go wrong so easily. And it's very easy to go for the OOC melodramatic behavior of shouting and hexing rather than silent treatment, tearful arguments, or rifts that get repaired, which we actually see happening in canon.

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What are your H/D squicks?

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