lomonaaeren | What are your H/D squicks?

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What are your H/D squicks?

I'm talking about squicks specific to Harry/Draco fic here (like a certain type of characterization), rather than to squicks that could apply across the board (like bad grammar or spelling).

1) Reading a fic in which the author portrays "bottom" as meaning "weak." Just ugh. So the minute Harry and Draco get into bed, even if the one bottoming has been strong, argumentative, complex, and equal to the other up until that point, now he must start crying and being scared of penetration and doing whatever the one topping tells him to do even if he's uncomfortable with it? I know there's a power dynamics to sexual relationships, but stripping it down to power and only power bores and disgustes me. In extreme cases where the one on the bottom is also very feminized, I think there's more than a hint of misogyny. Women can never be powerful unless they're the ones penetrating men? The penis is almighty? Please.

I don't mind stories where, say, Draco finds more pleasure in bottoming, or where Harry or Draco has a psychological quirk that inclines them to one or the other. Even there, though, I want it to fit in with previously established characterization. If Harry and Draco are perfect equals out of the bedroom and then suddenly have a D/s relationship inside it with no prior hint of that, simply because the author assumes the bottom is less powerful and under the control of the top, I'm clicking the back button.

2) This one is more nebulous. I can't really call it "one flawed character, one perfect character" because I've seen stories where both Harry and Draco were flawed that still hit this squick for me. Maybe I'll call it "one character hopelessly mistaken, the other always right." In any case, what happens is that the author sets one character on a pedestal and makes the other one into a hopeless mess as he chases the idolized one, dragging him relentlessly through past mistakes, making him apologize for the most minor things, cursing him with awkwardness at tasks he can do perfectly well, and treating mistakes as deadly and unforgivable until he's groveled and pleaded. It seems to happen more often that Draco is the perfect one, and Harry is the one who has to do something to "deserve" him, but I suspect that's not true and it's simply that I've run into more stories that do it; I've seen it the other way around, too, and it squicks me just as hard. Now, in canon they've both made mistakes, but saying that Harry must apologize and grovel and never be good enough for the author's perfect, beautiful, snarky, witty Draco because he used Sectumsempra on him, while it's just fine that Draco almost killed Harry's best friend (if you want to limit it to events in the same book), strikes me as deeply silly. The excuse I've seen offered is "Well, Draco didn't mean to kill Ron, he was trying to kill Dumbledore!" And Harry didn't know what that spell did; it's not like he lingered down the corridor rubbing his hands together, cackling gleefully, and imagining Draco all over blood. If you're going to focus heavily on the canon mistakes that will keep Harry and Draco from an easy relationship with each other, why in the world is it limited to one side?

I suspect that, in the end, this squick is largely the same as the other for me: I want to see Harry and Draco have an equal relationship, and the author weakening one or idolizing one prevents that from happening.

What are your H/D squicks?

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Oh, I see what you mean. Yes. I think it would be a good idea if most fests had a rule that a request had to include plot prompts as well as kink prompts. I've had a terrible time writing kinks every time I've done it for exactly that reason, but didn't feel it was fair taking them out of the story when they'd been specifically requested.

I feel about most BDSM stories as I do about most prostitute stories: I might find it interesting/exciting if the authors showed how and why these characters ended up in these situations, but with the lack of detail, I simply can't believe in it. "Draco is a submissive...but why?" "Draco is a prostitute...but why?"

Don't worry about it sounding like a rant. I'm glad you provided more detail.

(By "rape as fluff" I mean those kinds of stories where one character rapes the other "because he loves him so much" and then it turns out the other character was secretly in love with him all along, so it's okay! Which...really doesn't fit with the way the raped character is usually shown to say "No" and "I don't want this." Not to mention all the ickiness that goes along with saying rape is okay if you do it passionately).

Aw, really? I love it when one of them calls the other a slut, as long as it's meant in a teasing or dirty talk way, not as a "you're cheap and worthless and yet I deign to stick my cock in you" sort-of way.

If it's a very specific BDSM scenario, that can work for me. But I'm not very big into BDSM fics, so it takes extra convincing for me to buy it. And far too often the insult seems to be used to the character who's bottoming the way it would be to a woman: "you desire sex, and that's bad. I, the powerful character, am the only one who can desire sex."

Yeah. I have no problem with bottom!Draco (Ravenna C. Tan writes great stories that I love to read), and I have no problem with D/s and clear set roles. Within reason. As long as that doesn't involved changing the character of Draco (and Harry) completely. But more often than not, it does.

Exactly. Okay, if he changes himself to hide from Voldemort (I recently read a story that was very good, and that started with a makeover, involved crazypunching!Vernon and name and face (including eyecolour, but that was not permanent) changing, and everything was reasonable. I didn't like some of the reasons, but it wasn't like "suddenly a fairy popped up and made Harry look better because I think he's unseaxy") - I accept the most abstract things, if, in that universe, they aren't abstract. (And all those Severitus fanfics became a great deal less abstract too after book 7 came out.)

I agree. I mean, lovey-dovey, pink clouds is normal when you're in love - for the first two weeks. And it doesn't mean you lose your common sense completely. (only a little ;)

Reverse order!

Not to mention all the ickiness that goes along with saying rape is okay if you do it passionately.

oh! Yes, yes and yes! Thankfully, lately I've rarely stumbled on such "gems" but that's when I usually rebel and write one of my two-page bunnies (which never get written) on how I'd have done it. :D

Hm, yes, one of the important details is to show how and why - that goes for most things, btw, especially mpreg (another of the lenghty rant-bunnies, which actually got written, but let's not go into that) and why Harry turns out to be gay, or why is Draco suddenly a Veela? (Btw, I loved One Year's Temptation because that story had every requirement and showed all the things I needed to see to believe it.) But believing it and being able to feel it are two different things - which I didn't know! Until recently. I thought, all would be right if I could believe how they could turn out that way, but apparently there are stories in which you believe everything and still, that part of the story just fails to become "real". Or perhaps I just can't stand excessive fluff. *shrugs*

Well, the basic rule of fests is that every request is optional, except squicks. I guess I've been lucky that I only got "I'd love to see this and that but it's okay if it isn't in there" type of prompts rather than specific requests. But I know I got fics written for me that didn't resemble any of my likes or prompts (okay, so I always make those optional) and I still liked them because the author managed to create something worth reading in her own style and inside her own boundaries. As I say, luck. I know there are always some very specific requests. (And I cheat and edit my dislikes so that I'd not get those before signing up. :P)

I think it would be a good idea if most fests had a rule that a request had to include plot prompts as well as kink prompts.

Again, all I can say is: yes.

I completely agree about calling each other 'love.' As a Brit, I know that it is very rarely used to actually mean 'the one I love' by rather 'darling' or something less romantic and more friendy. Kind of like saying, 'you're right, mate' but is generally used to address females. It always irks me when Harry and Draco call each other love all over the place because, even in an established, well written, relationship, it's still unlikely that they'd call each other 'love'. Maybe it's just me being iffy and English but it really annoys me.

I dunno about nick names and the like. I call everyone darlin and honey child (mostly because I'm terrible at names. I've rarely minded it in fanfic, but you are right about Draco. I can't easily see him breaking down and calling someone a pet name.

Good God this has gotten a lot of responses. One of my squicks (besides what you mentioned before) is a irritatingly non-irritating Draco. He is an annoying character. That's just the way he is and there are a great many that try to write that out of him.

I read a few stories I thought were consensual play scenarios and they, um, weren't. I understand the desire to skip warnings sometimes that could ruin a story twist, but I find spoilers better than suddenly reading a "rape is okay!" story.

For some reason, mpreg can't convince me no matter how well it's written, but that's more a personal thing. With prostitution and BDSM fic, I've read believable explanations, so I write a rant in my head about "Why isn't this story more like the others?" ;)

I wrote "A Year's Temptation" in part because I have a real weakness for Veela fics and then get continually disappointed by the way most of them follow the same pattern, so I wanted to write one I could believe in, with slow romance and resentment of the "sex or death" requirement. I'm glad it worked for you as well.

Until recently. I thought, all would be right if I could believe how they could turn out that way, but apparently there are stories in which you believe everything and still, that part of the story just fails to become "real". Or perhaps I just can't stand excessive fluff. *shrugs*

Either of those things could be true. Or maybe the author lost her own belief in it halfway through. I think that's likely to happen with long WiPs that suddenly receive hasty endings; the author is no longer comfortable with or believes in her initial impulse, so she winds things up to be rid of the story.

Unfortunately, my first fest prompt was all kinks, without anything else to go on. I added a lot of plot anyway, but I still wasn't very happy with the final result. The first fic I wrote for

hds_beltane asked for kink first and foremost, but there were other prompts involved, so I wasn't so worried. Amusingly enough, one of the gift fics I received for that fest mentioned that my own plot-oriented prompt was way, way too broad (though I still liked the fic), so I guess one reason kinks endure is because some people like them for definite points to put in a story. I simply wish they weren't treated like a checklist so much or, to use your terms, an instruction manual.

I think I agree with both of your squicks. With the first one about bottoming, In my opinion, it's most convincing when both characters are strong no matter who is the bottom. Because, obviously, it's not just going to be the weak character who is the bottom - and with these two, neither is really weak. I prefer fics where the person who is the bottom is more 'I want you to fuck me' than all submissive and girly. It just seems a lot more realistic that both of them would be more open in directing their pleasure, particularly if it wasn't the first time they were with each other or with anyone at all.

There some to be some things a lot of people are tired of saying.

And yes, I dislike that. A lot of the "idealized Draco" fics I've read smooth all the annoyingness out so that he charms even Hermione. No.

I'm continually puzzled by the way "I want you to fuck me" (good phrasing!) or the equivalent is absent from so many stories. The bottom often doesn't demand what he likes, even when he's a "bossy bottom." Instead, the top directs everything, and the character on the bottom is supposedly only there because the other forced him to be or because "he needs to be controlled." Enjoyment needs to be part of more sex stories, along with humor and playfulness.

Exactly! Neither of them, I don't think, would be willing to just lie back and take whatever was given to them - pardon the pun lol. I think it would be about both of them wanting each other to feel amazing and with that, you're right, there needs to be more playfulness. It doesn't seem to work that one of them would completely direct the sex and expect it to be great for the other person. The best fics are the ones where they both are in absolute ectasy! Especially when their readers are too :)

P.S. sorry, this has got me thinking
I also dislike fics where Hermione and Ron are really in the background. In the books they are so important to Harry and it really irks me when they are pushed out of the way to make room for Draco in Harry's life. I don't believe he would ever just drop Ron and Hermione because they were a couple and he was the third wheel (or anything like that). They are really close throughout the books and while I can appreciate that they might grow apart, it annoys me when they're hardly mentioned.
I'm not one for that 'Golden Trio' malarky but I prefer it when they're true at least partly to canon in their relationship with Harry.
/end rant.

Heh, you know, I always write "I can't do PWP" and that warded me from all-kink prompts in the past. That, or writing "plot" among my kinks. *G* Although by now, fest mods would probably know that you're a plot-type of person, right?

As for mpreg, what can I say? I love it since I saw the part of X-files about the man with the Parasitic twin. :P So, yeah. I like the kind of mpreg that's slightly surreal and mysterious and just a bit horroristic. :)

the author is no longer comfortable with or believes in her initial impulse

You know, I've never thought of that!

I might adopt that tactic from you!

To be fair to the mods, there were two things on the list that they might have considered plot instead of kinks: mpreg and vampires. But I'd listed mpreg among my squicks, so vampires it was.

I don't think I've read horror-mpreg, only the schmoopy stuff (or stories that started out as horror and then became schmoop when the babies were born). There are times I've been tempted to write mpreg where the pregnant character is absolutely terrified and angry about his pregnancy and has to confront gender issues from the stupid people who immediately start to treat him differently, but even that probably would not be convincing.

I, um, speak from personal experience on the losing-interest part. ;) Thankfully, I've done only with original fiction.

I wanted to sign up to the mpreg fest but then I thought it would be cruel to my recipient. :P And yes, I'm also guilty having left some WIPs behind. (Amazingly, I still believe that some day, I'll get back to that fandom, at least temporarily, and finish that fic, because I really liked it.) But I haven't experienced the losing-confidence in my fic's main topic - perhaps because neither was very risky to begin with.

And you're welcome to adapt any tactic. To be honest, I sometimes go through the sign up posts of fests I know I won't sign up because it's not my pairing or not my type of fest, and steal the likes and kinks that make me go oooh, but I haven't thought of them on my own. *snickers*

I had a few fics recced to me from that fest, but I just...can't. There's no way I would respond to them fairly.

The losing-confidence part happened for me when I had a certain idea for a story and then, about halfway through, read a very harsh critique of that idea that made a good argument for it not working the way I thought it did. So I couldn't write the story without having the argument in the back of my mind.

I've been going back through fest prompts, too! Some of them make really interesting stories in my mind that weren't written for the fest, so I might write them someday.

I don't mind that so much if it was explained how and why they grew apart- but then, I've written stories where I chose that tactic because I'm not very good at Hermione's or Ron's POV.

Yeah, I suppose if you were unsure about doing Hermione or Ron justice that would be a good reason not to feature them hugely. I hope you're not offended by what I said - I love your stuff! - I think I've probably just not written enough to see how difficult it can be to stay as true to canon as possible.
..and I'll probably turn into a hippocrate and hardly feature them in what I write from now because it's too difficult lol. *headdesk*

I had a gut reaction to that: I'd try turning them BOTH into "she" and see what happens. Because I think that goes too far in het as well... ie it's not sexy except, as you say below, in a "scene."

Because I think that goes too far in het as well...

I think that's true, but I didn't want to make the statement because it's been forever since I read a het fanfic.

And the prevalence of "whore" and "slut" and sometimes "tart" (really? Tart?) in a lot of fics makes me sure that people do get off on it, but those people are not me.

I'm boldly jumping into this conversation, just because it's so interesting and between two people I like to talk with! Ditto on much -- especially the fest problem. My first fic included men wearing women's underwear and vampires -- neither of which I especially care to read, but wouldn't count as squicks. It ended up crackish, mostly so I could meet the requirements, but I doubt it was sexually "hot" to the recipient or anyone else, what I did with it.

I'm sad to hear about your abandoned fic, L, because I like your writing and suspect I would have liked it. I might have done the same, though. Is it possible to write a logical response and liberate yourself from the feeling, then go back to the fic?

Sexually "hot" is so subjective. It's one reason I worry about the fest prompts that are heavy on kink and light on plot. Of course the recipient is probably still going to say she liked it, it's the polite thing to do, but I'm a lot more worried about my ability to actually arouse someone, especially with kinks I don't share, than I am worried about my ability to engage them with a plot.

Unfortunately, at this point I don't think I'll be going back to that story. I'm working on other original stuff that has my full attention, and that story was abandoned...about a year and a half ago now, I think. I find I violently hate everything I wrote from about six months back and can't reread it.

Top/bottom roles may not be a squick for me, but they annoy me enough I might stop reading. I'm with thinking that people who take on permanent roles are KINKY. And if it's a kink, it's worth acknowledging that not everyone -- or even most people -- do it that way, and it needs some defending in the community. Because one thing I know about the glbtqueer community, if anyone knows what you do, it's subject to commentary.

I was just re-reading Beren's Corruption series the other day,where at the end Draco says he'll tell Harry a certain secret "about the time you let me top." Now THAT'S a reasonable use of personal roles -- Harry's ended up with dark critters inside him helping run his life, and Draco's acknowledging that it's going to be that way and he'll just have to live with it.

My biggest squick is the writer referring to them as "the blonde," or worse, "the Blonde Slytherin" and so forth. It's seldom a relevant aspect of their character; and post Hogwarts, I think the Slytherin stuff would be equivalent to "old school tie" but not a definition of one permanently.

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